One more vote from Haskell.org: I appreciate all the help in the past, but even then I am also of the opinion you should end the real time support. I think moving to something like a daily queue with Nuance is probably the best bet. I know for a fact we've pinged @epriestley more than once with breaking issues since we kind of live on the edge but for the most part all of our components are now very stable and I doubt they will fundamentally change soon, so we can live with the slight breakages sometimes (with solid backups upon every update of Phabricator).

Firstly, I agree that stopping real time support is a good idea, It's never a great situation to be distracted whilst in the middle of things. - Many of the first time install / issues could be solved with fool proof installation process or something like an official Docker or Vagrant image.

Some stuff like T7580 might be nice to have, but I don't think we have any real blockers here.

le IRC gem

T7580 ?

@epriestley, are there any Conpherence improvements required to do this?

@chad Thanks; that is indeed our instance. The import from Bugzilla in this case is done by @thiblahute, who can shed some more light on it, but I have some ideas ...

My only random thought is if email auth is open and the install is public, not sending email until you've been approved. This is mainly an Open Source host issue.

T2943 is likely going to come up as well.

My only random thought is if email auth is open and the install is public, not sending email until you've been approved. This is mainly an Open Source host issue. I hesitate at suggesting an admin level meta-mta option also.

I guess I don't really see any good ways forward here from the upstream perspective.

Funny, I was going to mention having real importers might resolve this.

We have to send the initial welcome mail for unverified accounts, since obviously you can't invite new accounts without sending them an initial email.

So ... do we send emails if an account hasn't been verified? Or did they import around that?

The import process created accounts for users and sent them welcome mail. This happened to coincide with T9046, so none of the links in the welcome mail worked.

In the case of the user we're familiar with from elsewhere, it looks like this is what happened:

@fooishbar is the only user I could find here that might know what's happening over there. maybe?

It seems that the recent commits are sorted by the time it's imported instead of the commit time, as commits later than those newly imported repos are shown. But the filter on projects is still not working.

Thanks! This is now deployed.

Assuming this is a misfire on "wiki", not an actual Wikimedia request.

I think there's one more thing that only reproduced at your house too, although I don't remember what it was.

It always still happens to me at home, but I never see it say on my phone or other locations. Presume maybe something comcast something something.

Is this still happening? I've never experienced this myself.

(I pushed this, too.)

Ah found it, Herald

where is that second quote from?

"Automate your companies process" should be "Automate your company's process", unless i'm wildly misinterpreting it

I frequently see this issue, and not only do i see it on secure.phabricator.com but on my own phabricator install. Cloudflare seems likely since I too use Cloudflare for my SSL.

&^%*&^&^@#!

Pushed, but "pesistant" is still spelled incorrectly. :)

(swap in newer clients). This will get pushed out Monday.

I think we're going to update the list and ...

(And I suppose I should have filed it against meta.)

This was resolved elsewhere, but probably won't push until Monday.

Yea, well it looks like an SSL issue according to chrome, and the certificate is one of cloudflare's wildcard certs which does contain some questionable domains....

I can't say, but I've only seen the error in Chrome, never on Firefox, Safari, or heck even Internet Explorer seems OK.

I see this as well, and phabot stayed in the channel, I have the cache disabled on my browser so I may see this more than others.

(I haven't seen this, but I'm almost always looking at the console while updating the box.)

The next time you see this, can you check IRC and make sure phabot didn't leave recently? I pushed a bit before this was filed, and this might be push-related.

I see this occasionally, and can confirm that a reload "always" fixes it.

I don't know if it's just me or not, but I've seen it on both my computers, maybe someone else is getting this too.

I am not sure which project this goes into.

(tiny heads up - I know you're quite busy)

In T6797#89105, @btrahan wrote:

@qgil - I'm curious if you can share how many people you have on "support" over at wikimedia anytime? I recognize this is probably rather nuanced given the scope of what you all do over there, but I'd appreciate what the costs look like for a more mature open source organization such as wikimedia.

Over time, we've reduced the need for this (much more public information, more auth mechanism support, more screenshots and such, better install process).

I would also love a way to do User Stories with Maniphest. I think it would reduce some of the back and forth to find the actual problem a user is having.

I've been thinking a lot how open source, specifically gathering bugs, features, is a very non-scalable way to build a company. At least at closed source places, priorities come from sales, product, and management, each with a reasonable position to be making product requests that benefit said company. However in the open source world, requests that come in align with the other sources, and not usually the upstream itself. Managing these and setting expectations in a polite, yet firm way, is challenging. I think Phabricator itself is fairly unique and hard to compare to individual open source projects like Wordpress or Wikimedia, in that Phabricator spans a very broad base of utility. That means it's much more susceptible to feature creep and much harder to say no to things that perceive to be likely useful.

I think its theoretically possible to build perfect software that has zero support costs though I'd bet this will never be achieved by any team of humans. Relatedly, I do think its possible to build many things to reduce support costs.

My proposal has less to do with "building tooling" and more with building community. But well, I agree with you in the sense that Phabricator adoption is overall growing, and we can always wait until critical masses of regular users, service providers, etc clarify the needs. Meanwhile, I still think it would be useful for everybody if you would point to areas where you welcome community help.

My two cents on this:

A healthy IRC channel is great, but compared with other channels IRC is quite demanding and leaves basically no memory. It's like high bandwidth for a minority, any it would be good to complement this with a low demand, asynchronous channel. In the old days this would be solved with a mailing list or a web forum (or both, and we would have endless discussions about which channel is better). Here we can think in our own tools, like Maniphest or Ponder.

I expect Ponder to serve some user to user role at some point. IRC and awesome people like @avivey really help a ton. Beyond that I think Bob is right, we need to focus on getting a real business going which will help us expand the core team and knowledge.

The community hangs out in the Phabricator channel (type # and phabricator as one string) on irc.freenode.net